Subaru head gasket issues

"Big Bubba Ray" (eganward01) 01/02/2015 at 18:42 • Filed to: None

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Semi long post warning. Can somebody explain this to me? I understand that Subaru had tons of problems in the 2.5 NA engine with head gaskets that would deteriorate over time. The head gasket failures were most notable in the Phase 1 DOHC 2.5 engines which Subaru put in their cars from 1996 to 1999. The problem also occurred in the Phase 2 SOCH 2.5 engines from 2000 until 2004. Supposedly these problems were taken care of in 2005, but I just can't believe that they were all sorted out.

Speaking from my own personal experience, I own a 2005 Outback. Its the 2.5 with a 5MT. Last time my car was at the dealer, in for a timing belt service, the dealer told me that my head gaskets were done for. Here she is in all her hail-damaged glory on the day I bought her.

My Subie is currently in the shop due to a blown out transmission (thanks, Subaru). This repair is most likely going to cost me north of $2,000 and I'm not too happy about it. But whatever. Now for some quick math. I bought the car two years ago for $7,000. Timing belt service cost $500, if I remember correctly. Transmission repair...let's say that will be $2,500. Head gasket repair and possible head honing will most likely be another $2,500, if and when I get that done. That's a grand total of $5,500 for a hair over two years of ownership.

At this rate, I think it would have been cheaper to buy a goddamn Ferrari.

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So I guess my question is why Subaru didn't do a recall for all their cars that experienced head gasket problems? If not a recall, why don't they offer some discount or whatever on head gasket repairs? The problems are obviously still there. If you google "Subaru head gasket failure," results number in the hundreds of thousands . This problem didn't die in 2005 like Subaru intended.

I kinda just want to get rid of the OB at this point before the head gaskets completely go and the car leaves me stranded on the side of the road.

DipodomysDeserti > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 18:49

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Your HG was toast and you didn't notice? How often do you check your fluids/oil?

T5Killer > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 18:52

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Makes me glad my Subaru is a 2.2 SOHC.

Big Bubba Ray > DipodomysDeserti 01/02/2015 at 18:55

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check oil regularly. Head gaskets were fine when I bought it but went shortly after. I check fluids everytime I stop for gas and change oil every 3k miles.

Big Bubba Ray > T5Killer 01/02/2015 at 18:59

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Im jelly.

RallyWrench > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 18:59

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The heads on my '01 Outback leak like a sieve, I've gotta pull the engine & take care of that some weekend. It's got 175k & runs great though, and it's really a beater so it hasn't been a priority.

I think Subaru hasn't done anything beyond selling the updated gaskets because it generally doesn't happen until well out of warranty. Individual dealers can't discount the repairs, because they didn't create the problem, and Subaru wouldn't cover their losses on the jobs if they did. Not defending them, but that's how it is because they haven't issued a service action.

What happened to your transmission?

DipodomysDeserti > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 19:00

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Damn, so they had just went. Yeah, Subaru head gaskets suck, and they've been known to crack Pistons in their FI engines. Honestly, the only time I've ever really heard of an auto maker making good on this sort of durability defect is BMW with the HPFP in the N55 engine.

T5Killer > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 19:05

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Don't be its a $600 96 Legacy beater LOL. I do wonder if the 2.5s after getting a good set of aftermarket MLS head-gaskets solves the issue.

PowderHound > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 19:06

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I never had any issues with my old 99 legacy 2.5gt wagon that made it to about 160k before it was totaled or my current 03 Wrx wagon with about 170k. Maybe I'm just lucky? *runs to knock on wood*

Big Bubba Ray > RallyWrench 01/02/2015 at 19:07

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Ya mine leak but the car still ran well. I feel like it's only a matter of time before coolant starts to leak and I'll be in trouble.

It sucks that these gaskets fail out of warranty and there's nothing we can do about it other than pay to get it fixed or do it ourselves.

Transmission took a shit back in October. I made a post about it but I can't find it right now. Driving to Columbia, MO from St. Louis and it popped outta 5th gear. Tried to go back and it ground a little. Finished the journey in 4th. Made it back to St. Louis after the weekend in 5th the whole way home and dropped a buddy off at his house. Put it in reverse, all wheels locked up and it wouldn't go into gear at all. It was a mess.

Big Bubba Ray > PowderHound 01/02/2015 at 19:12

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You're lucky.

[wood knocking intensifies]

Edit: I think the turbo engines didn't suffer HG failures like the NA do.

RallyWrench > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 19:20

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That's a bummer, sorry man. Mine only leak oil externally, it's not affecting the cooling side at all... yet.

PowderHound > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 19:21

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the turbos aren't as bad for HG failure. The 03s are supposed to have weak trannys though. Mine is the slightly newer trans than the first 02 and early 03. My dad has had two 97-99 outbacks that never recovered from their head gasket issues.

Xenti > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 19:31

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Bought an '03 Forester new. HG was replaced once under warranty. The second time was 2 grand. I won't do it again.

I meticulously have my oil changed every 3,000 miles.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 19:36

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They haven't done much better. My mom was looking at brand new Subaru's over the summer and the sales people more than once told us that all Subaru's need head gaskets at about 100k miles

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 19:37

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Damn dude. Dump that thing. $12,500 for two years of driving an unreliable used Subie. You could eat these bills and then ride out your car for a year or two and dump it before the HG fails again, but what happens when something else goes wrong in the meantime? Also figuring the value of that thing will be much lower in 3 years if this problem is widespread.

With $5500 in repairs alone, you could have a different car altogether, one less problematic, although not as handsome.

Justin Hughes > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 19:38

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I really really hope Subaru cured this in the FA20 motor. If not, shame on me for being an early adopter. But given the known issues with past Subaru motors, plus having Toyota's quality reputation to uphold in the Toyobaru twins, hopefully they fixed it.

Manuél Ferrari > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 20:22

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Is there a class action lawsuit for this?

Wurrwulf > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 20:29

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Leaking gasket on my 2002 Outback 5MT. I was quoted $900 for timing belt and $1500 for head gaskets. I told him that I'll just drive it into the ground before dumping it. Oil changes regularly, bought 3 years ago with only 45,000 miles on it. Started noticing oil dripping about 8-10 months ago.

My dad's old/brother's current '04 STi leaked, and my mother's '05 LGT leaked, as well. My mother replaced it with a '14 Legacy, and my brother had the entire motor rebuilt with upgraded components.

I think I'm done with Subaru, honestly. My sister-in-law now has a '15 Forester. I'm curious to see how the '14 and '15 cars hold up. I've been hearing some discouraging things about the XV Crosstrek's engine online, but I haven't heard about the issue in any other 2.0 liter vehicle.

Big Bubba Ray > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/02/2015 at 20:49

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Ya its absurd the amount of money that this car needs. I'm strongly considering selling it after its fixed and DDing my Z a bit longer while I search for another car.

Big Bubba Ray > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 01/02/2015 at 20:50

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Shit, thats a terrible reputation. Shame on Subaru!

Big Bubba Ray > Manuél Ferrari 01/02/2015 at 20:52

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I did a bit of research earlier but it was cut short because I grabbed dinner with friends. I found a few recall notices but, surprise!, nothing for the 05 and up on head gaskets even though they still fail.

Manuél Ferrari > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 20:53

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That's bullshit!

This is like the Porsche IMS issue

NaturallyAspirated > T5Killer 01/02/2015 at 20:57

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I put OE Subaru MLS gaskets in my '98 Phase 1 DOHC about 40,000 miles ago, and it's been rock-solid since. The car's coming up on 225,000 miles now and the cooling system still works great.

Big Bubba Ray > Manuél Ferrari 01/02/2015 at 21:02

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Exactly like the IMS disaster. Didnt even think about that.

Manuél Ferrari > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 21:04

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funny cause they are both boxer engines!

Big Bubba Ray > Manuél Ferrari 01/02/2015 at 21:08

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Decay buys too many beaters > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 21:12

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Headgaskets as wear items.. It's what makes a Subaru, a Subaru

chato > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 21:46

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remember, subies have twice as many head gaskets as most 4 bangers. you neglected to mention how many miles you have, and;

stop going to the dealer.

Big Bubba Ray > chato 01/02/2015 at 21:58

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its got 137k miles. Picked it up with 117k miles. Head gaskets were donezo at 122ish. I only go to the dealer when I need to. Timing belt was done when my mechanical abilities were in their infancy and I didn't feel comfortable doing it haha

Manuél Ferrari > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 21:59

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LOL

chato > Big Bubba Ray 01/02/2015 at 22:05

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I'd drive it for a while if it isn't guzzling coolant. IIRC this gen motor is supposed to have a subaru "coolant additive" which is basically stop leak BS. you might try dumping some of that in there.

just be glad its not a turbo model and you aren't dealing with cracked ringlands or a blown turbo.

Also try and find a good local mechanic specializing in subaru, the dealerships are the worst, both in terms of pricing, and dishonesty.

Big Bubba Ray > chato 01/02/2015 at 23:38

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Ya I'm going to drive it for a few more months then probably sell it at this rate. I can't afford to keep it on the road, which is ridiculous.

You're right about the coolant additive. Subaru has their own special "coolant conditioner" bullshit to basically delay the repair of head gaskets. The fact that they make this is evidence that they know their head gaskets are faulty and that really irks me.

Its hard to find a mechanic in my area that will work on Subies. When I was calling around to get my transmission fixed, a number of shops straight up told me they wouldn't work on it cause they didn't want to deal with the differentials. I couldn't believe it. The shop its at now told me they'd "try their best" to fix it. Super reassuring! Haha

The local Subaru dealership is the definition of a stealership. They wanted to charge me $800 to put in new front axels. I did it myself for the price of one day and a 6 pack of beer, Fuck that.

chato > Big Bubba Ray 01/03/2015 at 11:52

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might consider checking out the legacygt.com SubaruOutback.org forums. pretty big 4th gen legacy communities, might be able to get some mechanic recommendations or other local help there.

Ziptie-McBumper > Big Bubba Ray 01/08/2015 at 23:50

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Wait, what?

Timing belt service on a Subaru DOHC $500? Holy crap. I may just have to take my WRX in to the shop and pick up a day of OT instead of carving out a rare time when I'm off for 2 consecutive days (for safety, in case something goes awry). I'd still be up $200. I already have the timing belt, too. I'd be up even more if I factored in 2 working days for repair time.

This changes my entire outlook on life... I never thought I'd get to the point where it would be more economically feasible to have someone else do the work instead of doing it myself.

**Wipes away tear, sniffles**

I think I've finally become "professionally successful".

And more to the point of your original question, it didn't exactly die with the '05s. It WILL hopefully die with model year 2014, because that's the year (IMHO) when Subaru went from being a niche company to a big-numbers manufacturer. These type of issues get fixed only when a company sees that their ambitions for growth are impeded. Subaru is just NOW getting really ambitious. These are just the growing pains associated with getting on board with a company on the financial upswing.